Rosemary for Remembrance - Obscure gardening question
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Jonquil Serpyllum
Date: 16 May 2007 09:18
Subject: Obscure gardening question
Security: Public
Mood:inquisitive

For much money, our gardener eradicated the bamboo beside the house, and promises that he'll keep killing it, repeatedly, until it's gone. (Except for the bamboo that spread under the fence to the neighbors, which will probably keep sending over shoots forever.)

This means that I finally have an area where it would be an acceptable idea to put my own undisciplined invasive plants *grin*. There's an area farther up the path -- this is the path on the south side of the house, between the master bedroom, the bathroom, and the fence -- that used to be full of ferns.

I want an elder so that I can make elderflower champagne and elderberry cordial. Most American and Canadian nurseries sell the North American native Sambucus canadensis. The European elder, the one English people make champagne and cordial from, is Sambucus nigra. Both have cultivars selected for fruit quality by commercial nurseries.

Has anybody out there eaten both? Are the flavors essentially the same, or should I shoot for the old European plant?

Edit. Hmm. A couple of pages say that taxonomists now suspect S. canadensis is a subspecies of S. nigra rather than a separate plant.

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Urban Homestead
User: [info]urban_homestead
Date: 16 May 2007 17:29 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

I've had no luck with sambucus nigra, I've tried three or maybe even four plants now and every time they've dropped dead within a month or two of planting. Both my elderberry shrubs are varieties of Sambucus Canadensis known for tasty berries - I have Korser and York varieties. I was told it's best to have two different varieties for pollination. I have never made champagne from mine, but they make the best damn pie in the world.

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Urban Homestead
User: [info]urban_homestead
Date: 16 May 2007 17:33 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

Never mind my previous comment. It turns out my Korsor is a Sambucus Nigra and my York is Canadensis. The one I can't get to stay alive is Sambucus Canadensis Black Beauty.

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Jonquil Serpyllum
User: [info]jonquil
Date: 16 May 2007 18:35 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

This is *incredibly* useful. Do you notice significant differences in flavor between the two species? Is either of them smaller? (I know, I can hope.)

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Urban Homestead
User: [info]urban_homestead
Date: 16 May 2007 20:07 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

I don't give either of them much space or much sun, and prune them hard every spring, and this has kept them both fairly small - about my own height and arm-span. I trim them roughly into the shape of trees with one central leader and a few widely-spaced branches. I have found the Korser takes to this shape a little more easily and naturally while the York is naturally shrubbier and has more shoots from the ground to snap off every spring, but other than that, they seem pretty much the same. I get slightly more berries from the Korser (which may just be because it likes my pruning better), but I can't really spot any difference between the berries in terms of appearance or flavour.

And people laughed at me for keeping the nursery tags on the elderberries so that I could remember which was which, but see, if I hadn't done so, I wouldn't be able to answer your question! Vindicated!

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Stone of stumbling and rock of offense: hope
User: [info]wordweaverlynn
Date: 16 May 2007 18:15 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)
Keyword:hope

I used to have an elder, but it was there when I moved in. The birds adored the berries and then left purple guano splotches all over a 200-foot radius.

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movingfinger
User: [info]movingfinger
Date: 16 May 2007 20:32 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

On the principle that S. canadensis is better evolved to deal with North American pests and conditions, I'd go for that one.

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